Microsoft, doing it’s part to make the world a better place.
No it won’t.
240 million grandmas, cheapskate businesses, and cash-strapped public schools will continue to use whatever operating system their computers already have, forever, until they break, security implications be damned.
I’m seriously thinking of trying Linux when Windows 11 is forced. My computer has the specs to run it, but I’m just tired of Windows and Microsoft.
Yes, because normal people always throw PCs away when they stop getting security updates.
When Chrome/Firefox stop getting updates and websites stop working they will
So 5-10 years after Windows EOL
So at least 3 more years, plus however long it takes for website makers to use features exclusive to the very latest versions.
The only stuff that I know no longer works and is in common use is TLS. That’s the only reason some of our customers updated from XP.
But that will only happen when the user base falls, so enough people will have had to move on organically, for popular tools like web browsers to give up.
Firefox didn’t end windows 7 support until July of last year. 3 years after eol for 7 and when 7’s market share among windows was around 3 percent.
And just eol’ing Firefox doesn’t immediately break it, you will have at least a couple years before the browser becomes functionally useless.
Slack is already warning of eol on 10
most normal people are just going to be happy their computer isn’t annoying them about restarting for updates every two days
Oh, Microsoft will still find a way to annoy them, mark my words
Last update will spam the user to upgrade their computer. If they could brick it and get away with it they would.
Companies probably will.
Some of the biggest businesses in the world still run legacy systems somewhere in their organization. I work for one of the top 5 retail data processors in the world and we have a handful of ancient legacy apps that can’t run on anything more modern than Server 2012.
And almost none of them take the proper precautions for vulnerable systems.
I mean for fuck’s sake, Office Depot’s Southeastern regional headquarters’s HVAC system is (well as of 2019 when I last checked) is controlled by a truly decrepit Windows 2000 box THAT IS NETWORK CONNECTED!
We’re still running a CNC mill powered by DOS. It’s in great mechanical shape, the legacy software makes a specific product that we have a good market for, it’s obviously a completely standalone unit with no security concerns.
It’s kind of ridiculous actually, we’ve upgraded the mainboards and processors from 486 to Celeron, SSDs with SATA-> IDE adaptors etc but the software and the hardware drivers run on DOS and there’s no practical upgrade path. We will run her until she can’t make tooling anymore
Used to support a pick-and-place line for SMT that still ran on DOS, it’s exactly as you say. We upgraded every bit of it but when we tried to get a hold of the software co that made the instructions, and found out that all but one of them had passed away from old age and no one had the source anymore.
As far as I know they’re still using it.
Another reason I am a big proponent of Open Source.
I’ve been collecting any and all documentation pertaining to this machine and in many cases the guys I’ve ended up talking to are the only ones who haven’t retired. Fortunately everyone so far has been happy to give me a huge data dump of everything on their drives, knowing that nobody on their end will be available to support it in a few years.
What really scares me is not the software but the aging protocols that talk to obsolete hardware. Lose one of the old AC servomotor drives and good luck finding a way to integrate a modern unit. Easy enough to mate something up to the motor and feedback, not so easy to get it to speak whatever specific flavour of SERCOS was used on the machine. At least it isn’t a proprietary protocol… I’m still hoping I never have to do it.
Sigh. You said it yourself, somewhere. Not everywhere.
And this distinction is important why?
All it takes is one compromised device, and there isn’t a single company I’ve worked for (and I’ve worked for several bigger ones) that didn’t have at least one vulnerable device network connected.
It’s important because it means there will still be a lot of PCs going to a landfill. That’s how the duscussion started.
Hahahahahaha…breathes…,… hahahahah
But in all seriousness, they %100 will not. There are still companies that have winxp machines and servers on 2000/2003.
There is an entire sector of the secops industry built on protecting these machines.
Not 100%, but most big businesses will.
Hack the planet?! Finally.
My guess is that Microsoft will notify the users often enough, that’s something we don’t know in the smartphone space, we’ll see what happens
Routers put paid to a lot of that. Early modems were like sticking your dick directly into the internet. I remember when Blaster came out and suddenly we all had to learn what a firewall was.
Hard to believe we just sat there with every port open to the net like that.
it’s not even that retarded an argument! If you don’t think about it, it could appear to make perfect sense instead of being bullshitese for a problem that isn’t real but taps into moral outrage about how wasteful every day is under capitalism.
As I’ve been noticing it more across lemmy, what word did you type that got changed to “removed”?
The one I’ve seen is a swear but most others aren’t censored, and it seems to be an automated thing.
Edit: I suspect I figured it out so that’s at least 2 words, one a debatable slur and one an obvious swear but with no socio-political implications otherwise.
lemmy.ml has some absolutely draconian censorship. The word that was censored was probably b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t. (hopefullly it doesnt catch that). It’s also quickly going full blown tankie.
If you want an instance that doesn’t censor stuff like a club penguin chat and isn’t run by people who regard Joseph Stalin as their personal hero then a good one to try is sh.itjust.works. I only use lemmy.world because it’s the only one I could sign up for when I did. If I signed up now then I would probably go for sh.itjust.works or lemmy.dbzer0.com.
Damn, that sucks but thanks for the response. So far that brings the list to
threetwo words and no rationale or common theme save for one that is a modern slur.For reference, my list so far: 1: removed (B word for female dogs) 2: removed (R word, derogatory for people with handicaps)
3: bullshit (B-u word for literal bovine turds)Edit: my bullshit wasn’t censored. Sorry to all the pooping cows.
It’s the second one
The censorship only happen in lemmy.ml. If you look a the exact comment in another instance (e.g. https://lemmy.world/comment/8291179 ), it’s not censored at all. Lemmy.ml is probably applying censorship directly in their local database.
That’s a lot of new Linux computers.
Once upon a time, updating your hardware every couple of years was essential. Your new hardware was a lot faster for normal use, and everyone benefitted.
Over time, however, people could wait longer between updates, as new hardware didn’t impact daily use all that much.
The powers that were grew displeased, and then decided to force people to update more often. Newer hardware had shorter lifespans, software forced newer hardware, software as a service became king.
The End?
Well you see, they learned their lesson from Windows 7 and having to support it for years longer than they intended to.
They know the same thing will happen for 10, because they are literally forcing a bunch of hardware out, even though all of it can technically run Windows 11 and just don’t have a TPM 2.0 chip. They made this choice, this was a business decision and they know it’s coming.
So what did they learn? To not give it away for free. Now they’re rolling out a program to charge consumers for access to extended updates for Windows 10.[1]
Back in the Windows 7 days, they only did that for corporations, extended updates with a cost attached. Now you, the consumer, get the joy of paying for these updates as well.
Not only are they purposefully creating trash, they’re also squeezing people for money in the process.
They’re doing exactly what they did with Windows 7, this time they just plan to charge you for the convenience.
Stay classy, Microsoft.
“Individuals or organizations who elect to continue using Windows 10 after support ends on October 14, 2025, will have the option of enrolling their PCs into a paid ESU subscription.” ↩︎
I installed linux. I only use browser and vlc and it works great. I am not buying a new machine when old one works just fine.
me too. 90% of what I need to do at home I can achieve on Linux, and the other 10% I just do on my work PC. And I’m learning Linux scripting which is expanding my computational abilities. I should have made this switch a decade ago.
This is the problem the PC market is truly wrestling with. The processor capabilities and memory needs of modern personal computing has basically maxed itself out. Any and all upgrades to data processing are fairly minute and therefore older PCs are remaining completely acceptable for far longer than they were just 15 years ago.
I don’t think most people would be throwing their PCs out at all. Computers are a big expensive purchase, and people don’t know that they shouldn’t be running an out-of-date system. So neither Linux nor Windows 11 is happening, people would just happily go on with Windows 10 unless MS outright bricks their devices. Same for small companies. I would only be concerned about this for large corporations.
Again, Install Linux, get rid of Microsoft shit.
Yeah, because Linux runs everything!
Except… No, it doesn’t. I love Linux for specific uses, but let’s be real: it’s not a valid replacement for windows yet. Not for ALL types of users.
When it is, then I’ll be out on every street corner with you with a sign. But until then, can we not gaslight all of Lemmy?
No.
Linux runs just-about-everything. Indeed, that does not cover 100% of windows users, but it damn well includes 95% of windows users who use windows for email and word processing and gaming, all of which runs perfectly fine or better on Linux.
Once those are on Linux, I’ll shut up indeed but until then, here I am. I’m sick and tired of people happily giving money to a scam company who got where they are by lying and cheating, and then these same people asking me to help them out with their windows shit.
How is he ‘gaslighting’ people, exactly? What’s your understanding of that word?
What are you missing on Linux?
Edit: Kinda weird to downvote for asking an honest question, but sure, knock yourselves out.
Windows exclusive apps with which i revive bricked usb flash drives and devices, for example, can you find flashing software (not fastboot/adb suite) with which you can revive completely bricked android devices on speedtrum cpus or unisoc cpus or other noname cpus, windows have a lot of specific software that wine cannot handle and virtualbox handling very poorly, I’ve heard many science software (abandonware) still requires windows xp and 95/98 and running in many labs out there (p.s I’ve been daily driving Linux for almost 9 years already but still recognise that windows won’t disappear because we NEED to use that abandonware because there’s simple no equivalent on Linux and never will be because many on Linux scene despise old software and some of people despise old hardware with that, I’ve experienced such people in comments of lemmy already)
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Damn, i never thought to call Microsoft for tech support. Are they helpful?
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Apart from compatibility all other features are available on Linux. You yourself said that you’ve never contacted support other than to activate Windows (which you wouldn’t need on Linux).
I recommend that you install Fedora KDE and observe how shockingly easy and polished everything is.
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The two most important things missing from Linux are mass familiarity and certain important professional software suites. It isn’t that Linux doesn’t have software nearly-equivalent to things like the Adobe suite, MS Office, and AutoCAD. It is that it doesn’t have those EXACT applications. Like it or not, in a professional setting, you usually have to use the big proprietary applications because that’s what everyone else uses. Using standard software reduces compatibility and training headaches, and eases recruitment. Most technically-oriented professionals wouldn’t even take a job that disallowed them from accessing and maintaining their competence with the standard software of their profession.
Yup, any finance/accounting staff will not be on Linux
AutoCAD/solidworks
My art software, 99% of music software/plugins. Other than that, I’d be good to move to Linux. I’ve been dual booting for years now. But Linux isn’t for everyone. There’s a lot of stuff missing, and when everything works it’s great. But troubleshooting isn’t a slope of problems that increases gradually in the difficulty, it’s actually a cliff.
If you can’t/ won’t upgrade to Linux, at least upgrade to Tiny10. TinyXP is still getting updates. The “Tiny” versions of Windows rip out all the extemporaneous crap that Microsoft put into Windows that makes it a bad OS
AFAIK, there won’t ever be a Tiny11 distro, there’s just too much shit to rip out of the registry to make that possible
AFAIK, there won’t ever be a Tiny11
First I’m hearing of Tiny10 and starting to consider my options for jumping ship on windows. Anyone willing to give a short rundown/ weigh their opinions of linux/windows/other OSes. Video games are the main factor for me, with user control a very close second.
Nothing beats Linux if you’re want control over your system. As for gaming though, you can check this website to see whether your games are compatible or not: https://www.protondb.com/
And if your games are compatible, then look no further than Bazzite - it’s a gaming-optimised distro that just works out-of-the-box, no need to manually install any drivers and stuff (you can of course use it for non-gaming tasks too).
Also worth checking AreWeAntiCheatYet? if you play online games. Some work with Linux, some need elbow grease, others purposefully break it.
Just install endeavourOS or something.
There’s a learning curve and a few games will break, but it is a much less hostile environment.
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For us Linux users it’s just a fire sale. Diet cheap PCs incoming.
None of these PCs need to go to landfill. Linux
Sounds to me like an opportunity for Linux and Linux derivatives.
I’ll tell you hwat!
Windows 11 can suck my stinky cock. Windows will successfully force my LAZY ass to Linux. I am already testing the waters with my laptop.
Take a bath. And get a job.
(but yeah, eleven is awful)
Lol Vista and povety is what made me switch
What’s wrong with Windows 11? I use it on my gaming machine and my work laptop and it seems fine. Good, even.
It is straight up incompatible with older hardware.
And that’s before accounting for the bloat and telemetry that they have in it, and the shitty changes to the UI, etc.
Or folks will just continue to use 10.
Better yet, 7
Win7 crew represent 💃💃💃
Some still cling on their old XP laptops.
Life finds a way.
Medical and banks on older stuff yet. Dunno about space shuttle.
The shuttle probably runs on actual mechanical switches
You kid, I know. But the shuttle software was one of the most stringently tested systems, at least as one of my sEng courses would have me believe.
Amazing that the device you are reading this on is way more powerful that the ones that first put men on the moon.
Early electronics are fascinating. The amount of power we were getting out of devices back in the day is crazy. Like this comment probably takes up more memory than Adventure on the Atari 2600.
I wonder what we could pull off now if people tried to squeeze every ounce of power out of modern day equipment?
Agreed. I used to follow a mod group and the optimizations they used to pull off on 8086 is ridiculous. Nowadays an embedded browser app takes up 5gb on my phone. Wtf.
We still do optimize software today, it’s just that there’s a cap to how much computing you can really need for stuff like flying through space.
The most impressive optimized software things we do now tends towards the more abstract, or banal in modern views.
Calculating the most efficient route to launch a spacecraft to slingshot off a bunch of different planets takes more computation than actually flying or controlling the spacecraft.
We can also model every particle involved in a nuclear detonation to optimize blast yields, which is how we optimize lethality while reducing the number of warheads.
Video games are also typically pretty optimized at their core, it just tends to be overshadowed by being “boring” uses.
One interesting thing is that the OS statistics we have available are based on user agent strings from access to participant sites, and this method won’t gather data from offline machines. Statcounter currently shows 3,1% of win7 and 0,52% of winxp, but I wonder if there would be a significant difference if offline machines were counted.
like the US military. most of their mission critical stuff has been running for 20 years that way.
if only there were an operating system that could update without shutting down.
Don’t tempt the government. Please.
Hello, it’s me, a landfill
Those systems are going to be dirt cheap Linux boxes in the very near future
Or at least a couple will be for me
